Discussion:
Charter for dfw.general
(too old to reply)
n***@cirr.com
2003-11-16 09:12:19 UTC
Permalink
[This is an automatic, periodic posting of the charter for]
[dfw.general. All discussion should take place in dfw.usenet.config]
[The charters for dfw groups are found at http://www.cirr.com/dfw/charters]


For your newsgroups file:

dfw.general
General discussion that do not fit elsewhere in the dfw.*
hierarchy
_________________________________________________________________

CHARTER

Intended Use of dfw.general

1. Before posting to *any* newsgroup, you should read the
articles in news.announce.newusers. These articles provide
much insight into the niceties of newsgroups, including
appropriate netiquette when posting.
2. Discussions that relate to the D/FW Metropolitan area that
don't fit into the other newsgroups in the dfw hierarchy are
welcome here.
3. There are a number of news groups (those in the dfw.jobs
groups, dfw.forsale and dfw.personals) which are not
discussion groups. Discussions relating to articles in those
groups are welcome here.
4. Discussions that are not specifically regional should be
posted elsewhere(e.g. General state-wide issues should be
posted to tx.general).
5. dfw.general is NOT moderated, thus all free speech values are
intact within this group. This also means that no one person
is in control of who posts here, other than your local
systems administrator (sysadmin/sysop). The sysops are
responsible for deciding which newsgroups to carry locally
and overseeing the newsgroups and files they choose to carry.
There are guidelines for posting that are highly recommended
and are listed below.

Articles unacceptable in dfw.general:

1. SPAM, Chain letters, MAKE.MONEY.FAST, posts promoting
personal or commercial web sites or services are not
permitted.
2. For Sale or Wanted ads of any sort.
3. Commercial solicitation of any content.
4. Binaries. This is not a binaries group. Do not post
executables, sound files, image files, etc. in dfw.general.
5. Any article over 30K, ~750 lines in length. Please provide
links to such articles on a web or ftp site.
6. Evangelizing, i.e., promoting any particular point of view of
a religious topic. Religious refers not only to
faith/non-faith in a higher being, but to any topic, e.g.,
the "best" text editor or programming language, subject to
strong personal beliefs."
7. Personal Ads
8. Personal disputes.
9. Quoting someone else's entire article just to add one or two
lines. "Trim the quoted text in your followups."
10. No political posts, or discussions of any nature. Please
direct these to the appropriate political newsgroup. This
includes no cross-posting to or from any political motivated
newsgroup.

Canceling of Articles and Cross Posting:

1. Crossposting should be used in dfw.general only when
absolutely necessary, and before a reply is made to an
ongoing discussion, the poster should check and eliminate any
unnecessary groups that the thread is being cross-posted to
and think twice before adding additional groups. the poster
should also consider whether another group is more
appropriate for the discussion as it stands now, and forward
the discussion there though the use of Follow-To: headers.
Even if a topic of discussion is about other areas, regional
internet groups should not be added to the discussion on a
"FYI" or "maximum coverage" basis.
2. No more then three groups should receive any article placed
in dfw.general, including dfw.general.
3. Unacceptable examples of crossposting to dfw.general,
1. Any flame group.
2. Any group unrelated to the topics under discussion.
3. Cross-posted to more then three (3) groups.
4. Cross-posting to cause a flame war among the various
groups you have posted to.
_________________________________________________________________

Article Format

1. Articles posted to dfw.general MUST be flat-ASCII. This
means:
1. No Binary postings, uuencoded or base64.
2. No MIME encoded messages. Posts SHOULD be readable by
the simplest text-only newsreader.
3. No HTML, although HTML-like emoticons are acceptable.
4. No characters with a value greater than 127 in any part
of the post.
2. Posts SHOULD be shorter than 30K in size. Longer items SHOULD
be made available for FTP or HTTP download and a pointer to
that file posted.
3. Posts MUST contain a valid From address, unless the
".invalid" domain is used (see RFC 1036). Spam blocks are
acceptable. By definition USENET newsgroups are a broadcast
medium. If you have a post that needs to be anonymous, it is
not a valid topic for dfw.general. Post this material
elsewhere.
4. ROT13 encoding SHOULD NOT be used on any field in the
headers. Nor should any attempts, except minimal spam blocks,
be made to obscure the origins of the posting.
5. Posts MUST contain a "Abuse-Reports-To:" or
"X-Complaints-To:" header with a valid email address. When
RFC1036 is updated, this line SHOULD be adjusted to comply
with the latest specifications. Adding or replacing this
header is the responsibility of the news server where the
article was injected.

Failing to follow the above formatting requirements could
result in an article being canceled instantly and without
warning by an authorized moderation device (human or otherwise)
for the group in question. Articles cross-posted to other
groups and dfw.general must still follow the criteria of
dfw.general and be subject to these rules.
_________________________________________________________________

$Id: dfw.general.html,v 1.4 2002/05/02 16:26:34 cirr Stable $

Copyright 1999; D. Vondrasek
Copyright 1999, DFW USENET cabal
White Baker Anderson
2003-11-17 03:49:19 UTC
Permalink
I see a lot of posts in this NG that would fit in dfw.politics
Wouldn't it make more sense to discuss politics in dfw.politics and things
of a more general nature in dfw.general?

From the dfw general charter below:
"2. Discussions that relate to the D/FW Metropolitan area that don't fit
into the other newsgroups in the dfw hierarchy are welcome here."

When people post "For Sale" items in dfw.general, they are promptly referred
to dfw.forsale. Why not do that for people who post political items here?
Refer them to dfw.politics. It could cut down on the name-calling and
insulting here.
Post by n***@cirr.com
[This is an automatic, periodic posting of the charter for]
[dfw.general. All discussion should take place in dfw.usenet.config]
[The charters for dfw groups are found at
http://www.cirr.com/dfw/charters]
Post by n***@cirr.com
dfw.general
General discussion that do not fit elsewhere in the dfw.*
hierarchy
_________________________________________________________________
CHARTER
Intended Use of dfw.general
1. Before posting to *any* newsgroup, you should read the
articles in news.announce.newusers. These articles provide
much insight into the niceties of newsgroups, including
appropriate netiquette when posting.
2. Discussions that relate to the D/FW Metropolitan area that
don't fit into the other newsgroups in the dfw hierarchy are
welcome here.
3. There are a number of news groups (those in the dfw.jobs
groups, dfw.forsale and dfw.personals) which are not
discussion groups. Discussions relating to articles in those
groups are welcome here.
4. Discussions that are not specifically regional should be
posted elsewhere(e.g. General state-wide issues should be
posted to tx.general).
5. dfw.general is NOT moderated, thus all free speech values are
intact within this group. This also means that no one person
is in control of who posts here, other than your local
systems administrator (sysadmin/sysop). The sysops are
responsible for deciding which newsgroups to carry locally
and overseeing the newsgroups and files they choose to carry.
There are guidelines for posting that are highly recommended
and are listed below.
1. SPAM, Chain letters, MAKE.MONEY.FAST, posts promoting
personal or commercial web sites or services are not
permitted.
2. For Sale or Wanted ads of any sort.
3. Commercial solicitation of any content.
4. Binaries. This is not a binaries group. Do not post
executables, sound files, image files, etc. in dfw.general.
5. Any article over 30K, ~750 lines in length. Please provide
links to such articles on a web or ftp site.
6. Evangelizing, i.e., promoting any particular point of view of
a religious topic. Religious refers not only to
faith/non-faith in a higher being, but to any topic, e.g.,
the "best" text editor or programming language, subject to
strong personal beliefs."
7. Personal Ads
8. Personal disputes.
9. Quoting someone else's entire article just to add one or two
lines. "Trim the quoted text in your followups."
10. No political posts, or discussions of any nature. Please
direct these to the appropriate political newsgroup. This
includes no cross-posting to or from any political motivated
newsgroup.
1. Crossposting should be used in dfw.general only when
absolutely necessary, and before a reply is made to an
ongoing discussion, the poster should check and eliminate any
unnecessary groups that the thread is being cross-posted to
and think twice before adding additional groups. the poster
should also consider whether another group is more
appropriate for the discussion as it stands now, and forward
the discussion there though the use of Follow-To: headers.
Even if a topic of discussion is about other areas, regional
internet groups should not be added to the discussion on a
"FYI" or "maximum coverage" basis.
2. No more then three groups should receive any article placed
in dfw.general, including dfw.general.
3. Unacceptable examples of crossposting to dfw.general,
1. Any flame group.
2. Any group unrelated to the topics under discussion.
3. Cross-posted to more then three (3) groups.
4. Cross-posting to cause a flame war among the various
groups you have posted to.
_________________________________________________________________
Article Format
1. Articles posted to dfw.general MUST be flat-ASCII. This
1. No Binary postings, uuencoded or base64.
2. No MIME encoded messages. Posts SHOULD be readable by
the simplest text-only newsreader.
3. No HTML, although HTML-like emoticons are acceptable.
4. No characters with a value greater than 127 in any part
of the post.
2. Posts SHOULD be shorter than 30K in size. Longer items SHOULD
be made available for FTP or HTTP download and a pointer to
that file posted.
3. Posts MUST contain a valid From address, unless the
".invalid" domain is used (see RFC 1036). Spam blocks are
acceptable. By definition USENET newsgroups are a broadcast
medium. If you have a post that needs to be anonymous, it is
not a valid topic for dfw.general. Post this material
elsewhere.
4. ROT13 encoding SHOULD NOT be used on any field in the
headers. Nor should any attempts, except minimal spam blocks,
be made to obscure the origins of the posting.
5. Posts MUST contain a "Abuse-Reports-To:" or
"X-Complaints-To:" header with a valid email address. When
RFC1036 is updated, this line SHOULD be adjusted to comply
with the latest specifications. Adding or replacing this
header is the responsibility of the news server where the
article was injected.
Failing to follow the above formatting requirements could
result in an article being canceled instantly and without
warning by an authorized moderation device (human or otherwise)
for the group in question. Articles cross-posted to other
groups and dfw.general must still follow the criteria of
dfw.general and be subject to these rules.
_________________________________________________________________
$Id: dfw.general.html,v 1.4 2002/05/02 16:26:34 cirr Stable $
Copyright 1999; D. Vondrasek
Copyright 1999, DFW USENET cabal
Chris Bellomy
2003-11-17 13:17:53 UTC
Permalink
White Baker Anderson <newsgroupstuff @yahoo.com> wrote:
:
: I see a lot of posts in this NG that would fit in dfw.politics
: Wouldn't it make more sense to discuss politics in dfw.politics and things
: of a more general nature in dfw.general?

It would. But what does one do about it?

Charter enforcement in regional newsgroups, I'm now convinced, is
just about a lost cause. There are too many providers on the net
who either don't understand regionals or just don't care. Retro-
moderation (as I used to do) doesn't even work anymore because so
few providers still accept cancels. So you can't get offenders'
posting access removed, and you can't cancel offending articles.

About all that's left is building some sort of community consensus
about how to use the various regionals, and hope that good habits
follow, without a lot of browbeating of people who stray from the
path. (Those threads always descend into noise. See austin.general.)

It's gotten to the point, sadly, that I've quit looking closely
at the Newsgroups header when I followup to posts. If I felt it
would do some good, I'd be more careful. At this point, though,
I just don't.

cb
no name
2003-11-17 16:42:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Bellomy
: I see a lot of posts in this NG that would fit in dfw.politics
: Wouldn't it make more sense to discuss politics in dfw.politics and things
: of a more general nature in dfw.general?
It would. But what does one do about it?
Charter enforcement in regional newsgroups, I'm now convinced, is
just about a lost cause. There are too many providers on the net
who either don't understand regionals or just don't care. Retro-
moderation (as I used to do) doesn't even work anymore because so
few providers still accept cancels. So you can't get offenders'
posting access removed, and you can't cancel offending articles.
Well, I personally haven't given up hope. I have been managing a regional
hierarchy for many years, I also manage a news server. True, very few
places accept cancels these days making it more difficult. I would like to
think there is only a hand full of places that will not act on abuse reports
(at least that has been my experience). Then again, it only take one place
not to act on abuse reports to screw it all up for everyone else.

I have work hard at doing something. I have e-mailed abuse reports, I have
e-mailed news admin requesting they add filters, I have requested specific
sites to be blocked, I have e-mailed users who get trapped in flooding
attempts alerting them to the traps. No, I haven't given up yet. I have
managed to work with one admin at a major ISP, in writing a generic filter
to be added onto Cleanfeed that will aid in helping regionals enforce
specific rules. I have toyed with the idea of setting up a more closed
hierarchy with specific rules for sites to follow (something like usenet2).
Yes, I haven't given up yet and feel there are things that still can be done
before I can give up.

Rest assured when I do give up, I will not become part of the problem
myself.
Post by Chris Bellomy
It's gotten to the point, sadly, that I've quit looking closely
at the Newsgroups header when I followup to posts.
I don't mean this in a rude way, but you have become part of the problem
itself. Do you honestly want to become a problem that another hierarchy has
to deal with? What you are saying is; I can't stop the bully from taking
over the play ground so I might as well join him.
Not Me
2003-11-17 19:50:14 UTC
Permalink
<snip>

| It's gotten to the point, sadly, that I've quit looking closely
| at the Newsgroups header when I followup to posts. If I felt it
| would do some good, I'd be more careful. At this point, though,
| I just don't.

I would caution on trying to limit the access to local population. As
example I point to the military. Many use these groups as a personal/non
personal connection to home.

Right now I'm in NC but still enjoy keeping up on the 'over the back fence'
conversations in the DFW news groups.

I wonder if there would be an option to have the news groups server reject
cross post as I've seen a lot of confusion injected by post being to
DFW.general, NC.general, etc. I bring this up as I recently posted a
message in several of the NC forsale groups and inadvertently had one
addressed to NC.general. Somehow the system gave me an error message.

Last please understand I'm talking through my hat on this as I have no clue
on the actual protocols work. (which is one of the reasons I lurk on this
ng.)
L. Maurer
2003-11-18 11:27:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Not Me
I wonder if there would be an option to have the news groups server reject
cross post as I've seen a lot of confusion injected by post being to
DFW.general, NC.general, etc. I bring this up as I recently posted a
message in several of the NC forsale groups and inadvertently had one
addressed to NC.general. Somehow the system gave me an error message.
It is possible to limit the number of groups to which a message may be
posted. This is done at the injection server point usually. Note I
said "number". I don't know if it's possible to have a machine decide
what constitutes a relevant group.

mama

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